Why Most B2B Sales Decks Fail Before the First Slide

Today, excited to have Talia join me. Talia Heller is the founder of Down to a Tea where she builds WinMaps, the narrative architecture behind b to b sales decks that actually win internal buy in. Her take, the deck isn't the problem, the narrative underneath it is. Talia, it's great to have you on and chat. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. So your experience, very unique background, starting in military intelligence and taking that to b to b sales teams helping them win. I'm very curious. Like, what what do you what was that, like, foundation of military intelligence that you're still using today? That's an interesting question. So not a lot of people know that, but yeah. So I did start in military intelligence and I think the funny thing is, of course, like at the time you're like, you know, like you have no idea where that, how that can be useful or where it can lead you. But I think there's a couple of things there. So first of all, in military intelligence and in some other roles that I've had interestingly, what they're trying to see in the recruitment process is pattern recognition. Like that's basically what they're trying to see if you can do, or if we're like naturally good at that. And I think there's a ton of that that bled into other roles and to kind of even like in this lifetime, kind of like, even like as a consultant, like creating that kind of system, because they do see it as like a system thinking thing, right? Like as a product marketer, it's like what every product marketer hates is, you know, make it, you know, we need more one pagers, we need more assets, make it look Yeah, sure. Yeah. And I think there's a big frustration that, you know, kind of like being seen as a content machine. But at the same time, a lot of product marketing teams are more reactive than proactive. And I think that to kind of bridge those two things, you do need that pattern recognition. It's like, okay, what do customers actually care about? Who are they really comparing us against? Why do we actually win? What do we need to talk about? How are gonna tell that story? So there's kind of like a discipline almost in that. So I think that's for sure been useful. But, I think, you know, like in military intelligence, if I'm kind of thinking at my myself, like at that time, it was also kind of where I learned that, no place is perfect and there's dysfunction everywhere and it is A okay to call that out. And I learned that then I was super young and I kind of saw, needed to get some stuff done. And I remember I like, it was like a specific example that I went to some other team lead and they, you know, like wouldn't do something that we needed them to do. So I came back to my team and like, I told my commander, like what happened. And I was like, this is total BS and all of that. And what they told me wasn't, let me just go talk to them, which is kind of what I expected them to say. Right. Like I was, I don't know, like nineteen. That other guy was very, you know, much older, million ranks above me and all of that. But my commander told me, you can go back there and call him out on that. And that's fine. And I think that was when it clicked to me that like, you know, especially when you're at a position where you see stuff that are kind of dysfunctional, you think, well, I don't want to upset anyone. I shouldn't be the one calling that out. I better bring it to my boss and they can handle it. And you know, like all of that. But that was that kind of case taught me that, you know, we don't need to ask permission every time. If we notice something that will make our job and everyone else's job better. And that was like a big unlock. And again, I think kind of like, if I'm tying this back to the wind map, I think this is kind of that, right? Like you have all these, you know, positioning and messaging documents and all this stuff that the exec team wants you to say, and then sales team go and do something entirely different because these things don't work in real life situations. And that entire thing is kind of trying to bridge that gap, trying to be like, okay, how do we take this? And how do we make sure that we are not just for the sake of playing the corporate game and we don't want to upset anyone and we don't want to, you know, like, we'll figure it out what the execs want and what sales team does. Like, we're just going to be there in the middle and take all of that. And it's just kind of saying, you know, what if we could say these things and it still makes us different and we can still have, like, we still have a better position against competitors or against that thing, and this is how we're going to say it in a way that sales teams see it, get it immediately and adopt it because it actually works. So it's kind of like that win win. Being that confidence to push back and notice, okay, this isn't right. There's a disconnect of what you create in a vacuum. It sounds great to leadership and what sales, whatever's actually putting out and using. Having the confidence to to to bridge that gap or or show the dysfunction, that could take a lot. I mean, if in your career, did did you get issues that arose from that of and if you when you had to push back and they're like, what what is fine? For sure. I mean, you know, the the path there, like, wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, but I think it is around, I would define myself as a system thinker. And I think at the end of the day, even if I think I'm a hundred percent right, but you know, that team is not gonna adopt it or not like, is not gonna use it, like, they're not gonna go with it. Like, it doesn't matter if I think I'm right. And there is that fine balance of, you know, okay, how do we pinpoint what's not working here and try to find like, you know, like you see everyone's perspective and you kind of, you know, put your own opinion sometimes aside, and you kinda figure out how do you get the job done using the path of the least resistance. Least resistance. Yes. That's the secret. I've been studying, some game design on the side, and one of the interesting concepts they bring out is, like, don't go against human nature. It's like, go with the flow because it you you could force someone to say, no. You have to play it this way. You have to use it this way, but that's just a losing battle. So it's like, alright. How do we find the your point of, yeah, of least resistance to let the team start using it, but it still accomplishes the end goal that you're wanting to do. And that was, again, like the past of least resistance was something that I actually learned at a, like, at a different job that I had when I was in product actually was when I really saw that because when you have to, you know, answer to like leadership teams and VPR and D and you know, why you have so many bugs and when is this thing going to be ready for release and how do we not piss off any of the customers and all of that. But at the same time, you're also in charge of what so many people are going to work on. And developers have lots of opinions and product managers, they think, you know, some of them think that if they go in, you know, full force and just tell them what to do, then that's going to be it. But that's not, that's not at all the case. And I think that was a lesson that I learned at that job. Like, okay, how do we, how do I make it the most easier for them to get what needs to get done and do it even if they don't feel like working on that specific feature or in that specific bug fix and, you know, like do all these things. So it's for sure, like lots of layers there. And I think that empathy is definitely something that I think like, like we talk about it all the time, right? Like marketers should be like, you know, so much empathy for like the customers and all of that. But I think they also need empathy to other people that work with them in in the company. Yeah. The internal team. There's one other thing I wanted to to to touch on was this idea of pattern recognition that you also picked up. I I think that's huge, and I think that's probably a big piece of making sure that whatever your marketing is aligned with the buyer, you have to be, like, recognizing those patterns and those conversations externally, I guess, opposed internally as well. Is there any particular tactics or approaches or a story of an example? Or like, yeah, this is this is what how I've applied that idea of pattern recognition when it comes to marketing, when it comes to to sales enablement? Yeah. So I've seen it almost at any company that I've worked at or with as a consultant is that there are like, even in simple things like the competitors, right? Like are these, we have, like inside the company, you have this notion of who you're competing against and, and there's lots of emotion in that. Competitive stuff is super emotional. Like I've worked at a company where our CEO was obsessed with this one competitor and they rarely showed up in deals, but it didn't matter because that CEO, like they just hated the other CEO. Right. So they were like, they were obsessed. They always asked about them. They always, wanted us to do, you know, things kind of like against them and all of that. And now you think the same blind spot kind of happens with, if you're asking people in the company, Who's our ICP? Why do we win? You ask five people, you'll get probably seven different reactions, depending on the day. So I think like where the pattern recognition thing becomes really useful is to, you know, like, we need to look at the market as a whole, the competitors. And when I say competitors, I also mean competitive approaches. So it's not necessarily different companies doing something similar. It's also, you know, what other ways that are not in like that, that don't fit squarely inside our category that people that we can sell to that will be great buyers for us are using, or like are solving those pain points right now. And that does require discipline, right? And you'll also get lots of data, lots of information, and you need to start picking and choosing what really matters. And that's where the pattern recognition, I think, really comes in handy. Same for, you know, like why you win deals and, you know, like what are our differentiators. When you go through that exercise, you're probably going to find a few things that no one at the company is talking about because they don't think they're sexy or, you know, like cool enough, but it doesn't matter what we think. It matters what the customers think, or what kind of like beliefs they have or concerns or fears that they're not even talking about, like on a sales call, but we need to somehow address them in advance. So again, I think like when you put all these things together, it's just a matter of like, okay, who are we really going to focus on? Like, who's really like our best buyers? Because you're going to get a lot of noise otherwise. And really honing in on what they're trying to solve, how they're doing it now and bringing it down to their level and not just talk about your agentic, whatever that you really wanna talk about. Yeah. I wanna get to the AI. Can I just talk about the AI stuff, now? So alright. So you you have this ability to to recognize the patterns and you're starting to help the teams. Hey. There's an issue here. You're not you're not afraid to stand up and and show them the issue. And you've you said before that sales decks, when there's no story holding it together, they fail. They fail when there when there isn't that through line story there. But a lot of marketing teams think that that ever their deck that has a story. Kinda curious what what's the gap then between what what maybe marketers are believing? They see that there is something there and one that actually is strong enough to pull people in with that narrative? Yeah. Yeah. So I do think that when we work on assets like SalesDex, there is this tendency that we have and maybe talking to the path of least resistance, right? We think we have a story because there is some sort of consensus inside the company around, here's the pain points, here's the solutions, here's like the cool two features that we have to talk about, and here's the case study that goes along with it. So it's more built for that internal consensus than it is built towards a buyer's actual decision making process. And I think lots of times we don't even acknowledge, and maybe it's because, again, we haven't done the research or we don't know, or we haven't looked at a complete set of competitive approaches and not just these couple of competitors that like are on the same page as us on G2, but really trying to create that story from the buyer's point of view and not just from their point of view, but also in a way that they can explain to their boss in like a second. Because I think that once we do that, and that's like the big unlock. Once we do that, we don't have to ask for our buyer to share that deck or whatever with, you know, with a few other people who are also going to be in the decision making process. If we tell that story to begin with, from their point of view, they're just going to do it and they're going to do it very quickly. So, and now you think like that's like, that's the thing and sellers, they get that. Like they can, you know, there's a reason us, you know, in marketing, we all have like a bad rep for like the fluff, right? Like, oh yeah, like, and I have reps telling me, you know, like, No offense, but I'm not going to use any of these slides because no one talks like that. It just sounds too fluffy. And that's great feedback, right? Because if like one person in sales tells it to your face, there's probably ten more who just are going to spare your feelings or just have no or like, thanks. Then never use it. Yeah. Like, looks great. And then you look at the stats and you're like, why is no one using it? And I think again, like when you really build the assets like that, then you start seeing reps using them and champions using them. Same for one pager, right? Like it's not just the deck. Like we tend to think, oh, like we launched something, but so we need a one pager, but like no one cares about the feature. Like if you have a one pager that's kind of focused around a specific use case or a persona or something, and you know, like, then you have like a narrative, right? Like, then you have a story because you're basically trying to tell the same story just from their point of view. But if you're just talking about some, you know, again, like a new feature that you just added, then cool. Like, one really cares. Yes. So, if I hear you correctly, it's like, you're saying stop doing one pagers about features, focus on telling narratives around the That's it. Yeah. And there's lots of ways to do that. Right? Like, there's like, you can come across it. Like you can come to it from lots of different angles. What are some of your top, top favorite angles? So my favorite angles are so two types of one pagers that I really enjoy that I think again, like work really well and that I know sellers love using is those. So one pagers that kind of speak to specific personas in the buying committee. So people who are not necessarily going to join the demo or the other calls that happen, but you know your champion is going to talk to them and they need to say yes to the purchase. So again, we're not reinventing the wheel. We're telling the same story just from their point of view. So we're going to focus on their pain points, market research or data or stats or proof from their point of view. So like only on KPIs that they care about. We're going to highlight some product capabilities again that they care about, like not all of them. So it's just like a very, you're basically telling the same story from a different angle. And another way of doing that, you know, companies who have some sort of, proprietary research or something like that, or like have done like buyer studies or market studies or something like that. I think that's also kind of like an untapped opportunity because if you know me, you know that I love, any sort of proof. And by proof, I don't like, I don't just mean quotes and testimonials and things like that. I also mean great. Like what in your product usage and stats and things are like, great, you surveyed the market. You know, like what comes, like what came from that that can speak to, again, like that story that we're trying to say. And kind of, you know, if you're sitting on lots of data, you can probably slice and dice it from different themes almost, right? I'll give you an example. I was working with a knowledge management company, so super horizontal product. We did that survey and study, and we kinda saw at the end of it, we were like, okay, we have some very different themes here. Like there are themes around risk, but there are also themes around customer experience, and there are themes around efficiency and things like that. And again, when you're kind of taking these and just instilling them from each of these point of views, you can get a version that's like, this is like the risk version. That will be great to send to a CFO, for example. The more the customer experience one is good to send to a whole other type of person or in a different use case or something like that. But again, the idea is we usually sit on so much and it's just a matter of like, lens are we looking at it from? Oh, that idea of like, yeah, how do I get more data proof or quantitative data to back up the arguments I'm making? What are some recommendations? Like, where do you look for that? Where, how do you, how do you make sure that your business is capturing that type of information so that when it comes to the marketing, trying to put this together, you have it? Yeah. So you have to be really good friends with people outside the marketing team to get the numbers. So this is why kind of understanding the narrative is really important because you can't just go to the products team or like the analytics people and just say, I want all the stats. Like they're, they're not gonna Everything. Me all the Everything. Yes. Like you need to figure out, like, least have some hypothesis of like, this is the story. How can we tell it? How can we prove it? Whether it's like usage data or, you know, like product analytics. Would it make sense to come like with like a couple hypothesis? And so then you can like, alright, hey, these are two or three I'm looking at. Can you, can you find any data for anyone? So, because if you only brought one, they're like, sorry, I don't have any data for that. So I think definitely, you know, try to break the narrative to like what sort of, you know, hypothesis would support that and build from there. And then for each of them, okay, like here are like, I don't know, three stats or four stats that can kind of tell that story. And then when you go with a request, like, you know, share the hypothesis, sure, but also share like the examples that you thought of. And then you can even, you know, ask for like, can we do like a benchmark, like a before after, like, you know, when people start to use versus someone who's been on the platform for like a year. Customer data, like, that's one of the best things of that before and after. Have you found any good processes or methods to get that kind of data from your customers so you can create those beautiful story arcs? Yeah. So the product data is one side of the equation. And again, you can go as deep as to, great, now let's do it by industry or by company size or by whatever other thing. And when I think about that, I think about you know, all like the Gong Lab infographics and like the data that they started to post, I don't know, like a few years ago. When I went to do that, that was kind of like what I had in mind. Right? I was like, I want like a version of that. How do I get there? And then of course you can also take from, you know, like the other team that you need to be really good friends with is your customer success team and the customer support team. So two of these teams, they usually sit on, like they talk to customers all the time. They, you know, if they're running like NPS surveys and quote and things like that, they usually have like their own set of quotes around the product or around like the training or the service or whatever that we marketing, I think don't always even know exists. Kind of marrying the two together, I do think that the best proof is kind of a combination of those. And of course, like if you have a customer marketing team that actually does like case studies and interviews, that was like, that's kind of like the cherry on top. And even that, like, I think you can take testimonial and, you know, you can, you can tell that in a, in a very different way, right? Like you can tell, like you, you can take a case study and it can be like super boring. Here's what they came with. Here's what happened. Here's, you know, now it's all fairy tales and it's great, but if you can really show the transformation that happened, that usually makes it a lot more compelling. And there's, again, like there's so many more ways you can use that on interview that became a case study than just in a case study slide, right? Like you can pick a really good quote that talks about the pain, and that can be like a headline. It's the repurposing that I think is so many miss, is like if you have that bay that narrative that, whether it's a customer interview or just a story overall that you have access to, repurposing it. So, well, what are your top, like, three or ways that you like to repurpose? I I interrupt you. You're about to say one of them there, but you got me excited. So really taking even, you know, and that can also be from sales calls and win loss interviews and things like that, but take kind of like how they talk about the pain or about like the people, like the other people in the committee that needed to be involved. Like, you know, we tried to roll this out once, but, you know, then this happened and that was a no go or something. Like, there's always really good stuff there. And, you know, you can turn these into headlines. You can kind of flip them and, you know, make the pain, like instead of taking the quote about the pain as is, you can turn it into a quote about the transformation, right? Like how that pain is now gone. Of course, you can use their actual data and KPIs anonymized if you need to, does that matter? But like, here's the basically like all the promises that we make in the product slides or like in the solution slides. If you can attach them to like real numbers and real results, it makes them so much more believable. And that to me is like a really fun way because I think when you put it on a slide, it's just such a strong slide, but literally taking a few quotes, again, sales calls, win loss, case studies, whatever, like interviews about the pain and then kind of put them side by side with some quotes about like the after. And these kind of like before, after with real customer language, it just does, you know, it, like this one simple slide does that whole, like, here's the problem. Here's why we're the solution. You can just tell it in one slide instead of in like, you know The the codifying it, bringing it down, simplifying it so that it I guess it comes back to that arming that champion so they just clearly understand, okay, here's the story. I can now go sell internally. Yeah. And it's not you know, it's, you said simplifying, but it's I would even say connect the dots. Right? Okay. That it's better than simplifying, because you're, you're not trying to remove necessarily, well, if anything you're removing fluff is, is that what it is? Kind of, kind of. Yeah. I mean, I mean like unintentionally, right. But like, again, I think when you're building from the customer's point of view, you're going to remove the fluff by definition because you know, like if you really have them in mind and you know the types of internal conversations that they're gonna have after, then it's not gonna be fluffy. It's just not. And sometimes again, when we're like inside the company or too close to the solution, you know, it's easy to think, well, like if I'm saying this and then I show them my amazing product, they're going to get it. Like, it's so obvious that they sold the thing. I'm like, no, no, no. Just like connect the dots. Because when we're talking about like arming champions, I think we need to remember that also not all champions are created equal. Right? So like some people are really good about kind of carrying the torch inside their company and getting buy in and maybe they have this sway internally and they have more power. Some of them are just not great at that, and they really don't want to make a mistake also. So they're kind of really, really cautious. So I think if we kind of go down the route of thinking about it as like, let's help them just to connect the dots, then we're making it a lot easier for them. And again, going back to the path of least resistance, we're making it really easy for them to do that and to forward that because that document is forward ready. Explain it. They don't need to be like, well, like, the demo, they showed me this. And like, no. No. No. Like like, they don't need to to do any of these things. I've that really keeps coming back to the connecting the dots. Our our job is to make it just really clean, simple way to connect the dots. It made me think of this this quote. If I had more time, I would've written a shorter letter. Who said that, Blay, somebody? The idea is, like, it's so much easier to just give lots, but it's and it's harder to write less and connect the dots for them. And in some ways, I feel like AI is is great and it's helpful, but it's also terrible because it'll give you so much. Wow. Look at all this cool stuff. It wrote all this stuff, but then you have to read through it all, and that's not gonna help. And it takes it takes so much human effort too of con not condense, but connect the dots. I think that's what I love. Yeah. And I do think that AI is like an interesting thing here because it is helpful in many ways, but I think what is happening or what we are starting to realize, I feel like the premise was it's gonna make us faster. And then we saw that it does not make us faster. It maybe gets us to the eighty percent version faster, but it doesn't actually make us faster for every single use case. And I think it kind of moved our effort from maybe like creation from scratch or research or doing kind of like the legwork to curation now. So we really need to be like a really good editor and, you know, like we need to pick and choose what of the content that it produced or that the suggestions that it makes in our strategy and all of that, like which of them is good and which of them is really not that great. And I do think that unless we've done that work in some capacity in the past and have done it well, it's really hard to judge and to curate the output in a way that's, again, gonna be kind of like, great, just had Claude made me that deck and it's awesome. And I told it to not use more than twelve slides and it did versus great. Is it actually good? Does it create urgency and the specific needs? And is it like trustworthy and like, and is, is that narrative, like, is it good enough? Does it show its transformation versus just like, here's the pains, here's the solution, here's the case study? And that, and that is becoming the hard part. Yes. So in twenty twenty six, a great marketer is a great curator. Yeah. I, I mean, now talk about like taste, right? Like that's like the new newborn. Yep. I would argue that that was kind of a big deal even before, right? Like you always needed to have taste. Like you always needed to know what good looks like before you can ship anything that's usable and that's going to make a difference. But for sure, I think, you know, there is some like over, you know, like there's a lot of like hype around that now, because of the AI slob. But I do think that it was always it was always like a part of the job. Like, was always important to have to have that. I'm gonna transition here a little bit and digging into the content that can be created to support that has good curators curated taste to it. And that that comes to the the proof that that you're you're you're delivering. I'm always around I live in the world of video proof, so being able to get video stories from your customers captured, but a lot of times when it comes to to the the proof, you've talked about, like, it says sprinkled here or something. People say they sprinkle it, but they usually just capture something, and then it sits in a resource section somewhere on their website. And I know you're you're a big champion and a focus of now, you need to make sure it's everywhere, that proof, and then it's ingrained in everywhere. I mean, how where does it fall apart, and how do you fix that? How do you how do you make sure that that the proof that you're capturing and creating is is used everywhere? Yeah. So I think it falls apart exactly where you said, right? Like we, we like invest in those, like great, we need a customer marketing or we need to hire like some sort of agency that will help us capturing the testimonials. So we have them on a case study section on the website and then great. Like if someone goes there, then they see it. But if they don't, that it's just, you know, it's just Killed me. It's like, I know. It's beautiful. Collecting digital dust, right Yeah. Wasting potential. When, so when I kind of started creating the wind map was connecting that into there. And I do it before I start working on any piece of asset. So like that stage of let's figure out, you know, why we actually win, who's our best fit customers actually compare us to, kind of like figure out who's involved in the bank decisions, what they care about, what KPIs they're being measured on. So like, what do they really care about? What impacts the bonus that they're gonna get at the end of the year? And then fine, once we figured out why we win and how it stacks against competing approaches, then cool. What are the benefits? Who cares about it? What features do we have that kind of speak to that? Like, how does that translate inside our product? And then the kind of like the final layer there is great, how can we prove it? And the proof can be quotes and it can be product stats and usage stats. And I don't know, like maybe reliability and uptime stats for some personas for sure, or in some types of products or use cases. But like it's all of these things and I kind of build it as part of the wind map because again, it's not going to be convincing, not for teams internally, even not to mention for, you know, the buyer, if we can't back everything that we say. That's kind of like my belief. And then when you actually go and create the assets, you can pick and choose, you know, what you're going to use and how you're going to use it. And that's kind of like more like a storytelling technique. But first of all, you need to like map the entire thing. Like you need to understand, great. Like if we're saying that we're, I don't know, like the most reliable thing, like how can we prove that? And then what evidence do we have? Like what testimonials or quotes do we have that say that it even matters and why it matters? The only thing that I kind of map like after in the storytelling part, like in the asset creation is the proof that comes from the market, right? Like, because if our POV is that we're really helping you solve for this problem, not for that problem that you thought you were solving with the category, that's kind of like the reframe. What evidence do I have from what's happening in the world right now from companies similar to my buyers and to kind of like what's happening with their customers and that even justifies that. And that's kind of like, how do we drive urgency? Because again, like I do think that everything we say, everything that's part of the story needs to be undeniable. Like it needs, like I'm saying that this thing for supply chains matter now more than it used to, because this is what the data is showing. And that's how you create that urgency. And that's how you create those one pagers or decks or whatever other asset, or like a webinar topic that's worth forwarding to that, you know, CIO or a CFO who are not necessarily hopping on sales calls, but it has information that they should care about. Huge. That's huge. There are so many different things that, as a marketer, we can and we are working on, and it's hard to always look and figure out where where where do I put my energy and time my limited time and energy on different things. And so what I'd love to do is close here with a specific thing that you would recommend to a b to b marketing leader that they need to to build. I wanna ask you from two sides. One is a marketer that's fresh in their role. Alright? They just came in and in as as leadership in their role in the first ninety days, what would you have them build? And then if you wanna also then share somebody's already there right now, and they're like, alright. I gotta revamp. I gotta relook at what am I doing. Maybe they need to rebuild or rechange and look at in the next ninety days. I'll be curious if it's the same or different. But let's start with somebody, a marketer who's fresh in their role the first ninety days. What are you gonna tell them that you need to build this, you need to check this as you you move forward? Yeah. It's a great question, and you're right. There are only so many hours in the day. So I do think that, you know, if you're again, like selling to, so like non PLG, so like Sales Motion type of company, high ACV, which is that, you know, mostly the types of companies that I've worked at and with. So this is kind of like where my break goes. I think the thing that will get you the furthest is kind of like a champion brief as I like to call it. So like not battle cards and not sixty pages documents and not like a positioning strategy deck, not these because a positioning strategy deck might feel really productive in the moment, but no one's gonna look at it. And I think like, and I'll clarify, like when I say like a champion brief, I mean something that's, you know, if you just had to write like a simple document, one page, a Google doc, no design, no nothing, to the person who buys your product, who needs to rally around other people, what do they need to know? That's kind of it. And it forces you to, first of all, kind of pick who you're selling to and who's your ICP. And it forces you to know, again, who they're comparing you to, how they're solving it now, what they tried that didn't work, what they tried but don't feel great about that makes them reconsider. Like, you need to know all these things to produce these documents. So maybe I'm cheating a little bit in my, in my, but I think it's that level. Like if you can still, you know, watch that you understand what like their world and what they're going through and what they need to get done. What is working against them to achieve that. And if you can connect the dots to how you can help and the proof, of course, that you have, that you can actually make it happen and make them successful. I think that's that's the brief to document. And I think if you give that again, even though it's just like an internal brief to any of your sellers, it will be more useful than a super complicated Huddl card that's built on, I don't know, web scraping agents and all of that. Because again, like we can automate and we can make things super thorough and fancy and all of that. But if we don't have, like, if we can't distill that into like a single POV that kind of sells that story, your sellers are not gonna, you know, interact with your competitive Intel AI thing. It's not gonna help them close deals. Yeah. It's distilling everything in one place. Well, actually, a nice full circle to the beginning of our conversation. It's like that intelligence, that connecting the dots, seeing the trend of, okay, what is our buyers? What do they need to know? And what do they need to have to to sell internally? And then condensing it into into connected dots right there for for them to to be able to leverage. But I feel like as you as you said, you can't if if it's your first ninety days, this is kind of the output of all of your information gathering. It's kind of the final crux of, like, I do know our our people now are the buyers, what they need. And if if anything, it maybe creates the road map of their you'll probably recognize gaps. We don't have proof for this stat. We don't have proof for they need information over here. And then you can take that to your your your leadership and say, hey. This is what we need. This is my road map now going to the next maybe, like, three months, six months, or nine months. We're gonna build out all of this. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That is huge. Well, thank you for for sharing your your wisdom and and insights. I've enjoyed our conversation. Where can folks find you to learn more of the wisdom that you're dropping? I can't promise any wisdom, but you're gonna find me on LinkedIn most days. And I also have a stack called Spill the Tea, where I kind of talk about slightly different things. Well, it's the same thing, but in a different way, kind of like everything that we talked about today. So in that sub stack, I usually take something that I picked up on that happened between, you know, at a specific company or between a few companies. Sometimes it's competitive place, sometimes it's not. And I kind of break it down to what was the genius parts about it, where it potentially kind of flopped or could have been better and what's kind of like maybe the thinking or the thought process. I'm very cautious about using the word framework behind what they did so we can all get inspiration from.